Myth: All Atheists Are Agnostics
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Reasonable Certainty
One of David Hume's most famous and important points is that we can't be certain of anything. How do I know that the cereal I had for breakfast today won't be poisonous tomorrow? Because I've had that cereal countless times for its nutritional value and in the past it has always worked. How do I know that what worked in the past can be expected to work in the future, though? Well, in the past things that worked in the past have tended to work in the future. That is to say, I have no further explanation. All I have is the constant conjunction of these elements. But to explain constant conjunction I only have constant conjunction itself, ad infinitum. Hence Hume's conclusion that we can't be certain of anything. The sun might not rise tomorrow, blue may turn red tomorrow, what used to be nutritious might suddenly be poisonous, and so on.
The solution is, of course, reasonable certainty. It may be impossible to have absolute certainty of anything, but one can be reasonably certain of things. All that is required for reasonable certainty is that there be no good reason for doubt. So if the cereal I have for breakfast has always been nutritious and absolutely nothing has changed, then it's reasonable to assume it is still nutritious and unreasonable to doubt it. If, however, I am aware that Kelloggs has been taken over by North Korea, then I have reason to believe the cereal may become poisonous. Without a good reason to doubt, I can be said to have certainty, even if it can never be given a perfect foundation. I can be reasonably certain that the sun will continue to rise, that blue will remain blue, that coffee will continue to taste like coffee, and so on.
Overdemanding Definitions
Once, upon returning from a meeting of several prominent atheists, Hume declared he had never met an atheist in his life. This was especially curious considering Hume himself had a reputation as an atheist. But it is a common position and myth that atheists are really agnostics, or worse, closeted believers. For instance, Niels Bohr was found to have a horseshoe hanging in his office. A fellow physicist asked, "Surely you don't believe in this?" And Bohr replied, "Of course not; but I hear it works even if you don't believe in it." This is perhaps the way some think of atheists. People who believe in their own way, thinking they don't. What Hume doubtless meant is that there is no-one with absolute certainty that there is no God. Hume should have known better.
If you define a pizza as "a flattened wad of cooked dough topped with tomato sauce, cheese, and meat," then any pizza without cheese or meat is not a real pizza. This is a common attitude in groups. "He's not a real communist, for he owns a car!" or "He's not a real Christian, as he believes in works over faith!" This is a problem of overdemanding definitions. And the demand that an atheist have absolute faith is overdemanding.
If an atheist is defined as someone with absolute certainty in not-God, an atheist is a man of faith. It's built into this definition that the atheist be a hypocrite. An atheist chastises others for having faith and yet has faith himself. In reality, most if not all atheists deny themselves absolute certainty. What atheists do have is reasonable certainty that there is no God. They are as certain there is no God as that the sun will continue to burn tomorrow, that it wasn't gremlins that broke the motor of their cars, that cereal will continue to be nutritious. Should some information be granted to them that makes this certainty less reasonable, then they may cease to be atheists. Obviously Jesus's many appearances in burnt toast, the existence of this universe, and the power of prayer has given them no cause to doubt their reasonable certainty. Agnostics, by comparison, do not even hold reasonable certainty.
Fascination
This short article was written in response to this eloquent hub by HubFriend Ben Zoltak. It's recommended reading. He expresses difficulty accepting that there are 'real' atheists. There may indeed be atheists of the type that have faith in no-god. Absolute faith happens, of course. But I don't think, for the reasons given above, that atheists must have absolute certainty or faith. Ben's appeal for less certainty and openness to a broader picture is a benevolent one and hopefully an appeal I've shown to be compatible with atheism. Atheism is not about certainty, but about reasonableness. Atheists are free to be fascinated by ideas of all sorts. It's through fascination that we discover just how reasonable our certainties are; through apathy that we eat the North Korean corn flakes. Think about it.
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Don't you have milkshakes in Canada...?
I'd say "great work"..but I'm worried about your ego.
I'll be back to read this one, that last pick is great, "she's married", hehe, ah time to go to work, boo, labor is such a nuisance when I'd rather be debating!
Well done, thanks Professor (we all need a little ego pumping now and again, or at least I do) now I can go to my plumbing-less camping trip in a few weeks armed with more knowledge about atheists and agnostics, perhaps my brother is an atheist after all. I enjoyed your clarity of language here Arthur and your allowance for reason, you have renewed my faith in atheists everywhere and I'm not being cheeky to use the parlance of my northern neighbors. I sincerely mean that, it always bothered me that atheists wouldn't at least "hedge" their bets!
In a way, I pictured atheists as people who could/would never believe in anything, as if Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Mohammad and The Buddha would all sail soaring down from the clouds, with a giant glowing orb that changed forms every few seconds and all the aforementioned prophets all read signs in a thousand languages with arrows pointing to the anomaly that said "God" and atheist would still shake their heads and say, "ah it's all smoke and mirrors". Haha, I mean that in an endearing way of course. I met an outspoken atheist once who told me he didn't believe we had put a man on the moon (one of several I've met over the years) and I believe that's where my misconception of atheists has it's roots.
Also, I guess I'm still a little unclear on the distinction of agnostics, by your definition it sounds like they are less committed to reason and more apt to doubt? Or am I phrasing that incorrectly?
Very well written Arthur, and thank you for your thoughtful compliment my friend. Atheists are in my lodge now.
Well than i guess you can call me an agnostic. As i believe everything is possible (not anything, everything) and nothing is certain. I liked this hub. By the way, that last pic def looks like a grilled cheese cooked in one of those crazy sandwich makers. And why does the pic have to be jesus? I myself see the Geiko caveman!
Do you exist? Why do you exist? Is it because you believe so much in your own existance and the power of that caused you to be even before you were? haha, i have a thousand crazy maybies in my head at all times. Ever study Quantum physics? Im pretty sure you being so well read, have at leat a grasp on its laws. nothing is impossible, it may be improbable, but never impossible. The circle square thing, ill think about that and get back to you, you may have me stumped there. But every single law of mathematics, is a standard we set as to measure and study. None of its really even real. But weather things are or arent, may or may not be, i cant think about it for too long. It gives me the same panic feeling i get when i stare into the night sky for a long enough time. Oh, and about the old lady, her liver spots create what looks to me like the little dipper.
Well, ever hear of the law of attraction? you know, before that annoying dvd came out.
This poor old woman. She spent all that time faking a mericle and we're here having a go at her.
Hahahaha, i didnt notice the bandaid before. She rescued the jesus toast from her broken toaster. All this talk about toast is making me want some shrimp toast. God what i wouldnt give for some chinese food right now! By the way, the law of attraction only works for the individual. So like, wake up every morning and say to yourself "money is comming to me soon, freely, and easily." Oh, and its not like rubbing an arab lamp, aunt bessie isn't going to die and leave you your inheritance because your trying to draw in 5 grand.
So, do you think that it's reasonable in this case to make a distinction between using "know" in the common-use sense of the word, and using "know" as an epistemological term?
Personally, I'm comfortable with using "know" in the first sense to say that I know there is no god. As an epistemological term, it's difficult to say that I have a justified knowledge that there is no god. Certainly, I think it's a justified belief, but I don't "know" a negative (there are no leprechauns, for instance) in the same sense that I know 1 + 1 = 2.
Once you define agnosticism as a position regarding knowledge, the question becomes what sense of the word "knowledge" you are using. This seems to me to be the issue that is hanging up most self-described agnostic atheists.
Maybe I misunderstood, but I felt that this was the point of your argument. Frankly, I've always felt that most people who adopt the label "agnostic" are making the false claim that there is no basis to form a belief about whether or not there is a god. There is tremendous confusion about distinguishing between a belief and knowledge, and what these two terms mean, and I think that's muddling up the issue.
Fortunately, I have proof: The Atheist Unbible, 66 different books that were not written over 1400 years in which not a single prophecy was made, a book that proves by its non-existence to be the non-inpsired non-word of no one.
Nothing 13:6 __________
Try to refute that!













Green Lotus Level 6 Commenter 2 years ago
Like the tune "everything old is new again"..or the saying "today's technology is yesterday's magic"..or is it today's trash is yesterday's leftovers? Oh well, your philosophical musings are highly sophisticated and quite brilliant. I really enjoy your undemanding take on life and your enlightened humor...and it appears you are a fan of the great Ben too. Rated up. Here's to the age of reasonableness and discovery.